Broadband-Hamnet™ Forum :: VoIP
Welcome Guest   [Register]  [Login]
 Subject :Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-07-25- 13:18:14 
wc3xs
Member
Joined: 2013-06-06- 22:25:20
Posts: 13
Location

I guess it better to be safe than sorry, but if I run VoIP over the mesh, and have music on hold configured and place a call on hold, am I violating the rules in section 97.113?  It is a royalty free music selection and can hardly be considered "music" but my guess is that this is a no no. 


Thanks

Jesse - WC3XS

IP Logged
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-07-25- 16:48:32 
K5KTF
Admin
Joined: 2010-01-18- 23:04:04
Posts: 266
Location: 5' from this webserver
  
Part 97 says NO MUSIC. Part 97 DOES ALLOW 1's and 0's in a digital format. IP Phones and mesh nodes only send 1's and 0's to each other. ;-)
IP Logged
B-) Jim K5KTF EM10bm Cedar Park, TX :star:
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-07-25- 19:08:56 
wx5u
Member
Joined: 2013-01-02- 00:30:45
Posts: 188
Location: Austin, TX

"No your honor, it wasn't porn, it was just a bunch of 1's and 0's. Sealed It didn't become porn until officer Jones ran it through his computer program and displayed it on the screen." 

"It's not porn, it's just a pattern of colored dots of light on the computer screen." Innocent

"It's not music, it's variable wavelength electromagnetic radiation at a frequency far above the range of human hearing." 

"It's not music, it's Nickelback" Yell

Seriously, it's like encryption.  Nothing anyone here says is going to prevent the FCC from deciding it's against the rules.

Put your own license at risk if you want to, but I'm going to just avoid music.

IP Logged
I'm not part of the development team, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm also easily confused.

Check out the free Wireless Networking Book
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-07-25- 19:42:08 
wx5u
Member
Joined: 2013-01-02- 00:30:45
Posts: 188
Location: Austin, TX

I just realized the obvious answer.

Put an MP3 file of code practice as the on hold "music."

Or the Amateur Radio Newsline.

IP Logged
I'm not part of the development team, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm also easily confused.

Check out the free Wireless Networking Book
 Subject :Re:Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-07-29- 03:42:42 
kc2ugv
Member
Joined: 2012-03-22- 08:28:17
Posts: 9
Location

Excellent solution!





[wx5u 2013-07-25- 19:42:08]:

I just realized the obvious answer.

Put an MP3 file of code practice as the on hold "music."

Or the Amateur Radio Newsline.


IP Logged
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-07-29- 08:07:11 
ae5ae
Member
Joined: 2010-10-27- 00:47:17
Posts: 144
Location: Van Alstyne, TX
Unfortunately, there's no definition of "music" in Part 97. I know I can find a Federal judge that would agree with me about "rap" not being music. :)
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-08-23- 05:43:14 
KG1L
Member
Joined: 2013-06-28- 12:53:53
Posts: 18
Location: Owings, MD

Let's ask the FCC about music on hold.

§ 97.113 Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
(4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section; . . . [exception not relevant, here]

It looks like music on hold is legal if you are not using a phone emmission.

By the way,

§ 97.113 Prohibited transmissions.
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
(4). . . obscene or indecent words or language; . . . [most rap fits here]

is not restricted to phone emmissions.

IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2013-08-23- 05:47:37 By KG1L for the Reason Reformat line breaks.
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-08-23- 18:45:55 
kb9mwr
Member
Joined: 2010-10-06- 23:04:25
Posts: 54
Location

Also from my 2000 ARRL FCC Rule Book, page 2-27, Q&A on Music:

Q. My friend and I are music composers. Can we trade compositions in ASCII code across town on 2 meters?

A. The music prohibition concerns the playing of music itself, not information about the music. As long as no musical nodes can be detected on the air, you're okay.

Q. What if we send commands to each others MIDI synthesizers over the air?

A. Again no problem, as long as no actual music is played on the air.

IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2013-08-23- 18:47:07 By kb9mwr for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-08-27- 02:19:25 
KJ4AJP
Member
Joined: 2013-03-24- 12:21:59
Posts: 35
Location: NW Tennessee EM56ni
 

Regardless of the FCC definition, I like the idea of using a Morse code message as my MOH.  I found a website that converts text to Morse in mp3 format, converted that mp3 to 8Khz 16 bit mono wav for install in a RasPBX/FreePBX 2.11.0.0rc1.2 (Asterisk v11.5.0) box.  Under Settings -> Music On Hold I've deleted all the other wav files in the "Category:default" after I successfully uploaded my Morse wav file. 

I have 6 nodes, 4 with extensions active.  When I put an extension on hold from another (or put an inbound call from my GoogleVoice trunk on hold), I still get what appears to be the MIDI from the PBX. 

Anybody know where I select my Morse wav file to be played system-wide for all instances that a party would be put on hold?  I saw some FreePBX forum posts regarding Asterisk storing the recordings under "moh" and FreePBX under "mohwav" but that was back in 2011 and a final post said things were fixed.  So I'm looking for info from anyone that's set this up in a current version.

If I have to do it at the CLI be gentle and step me through it.  :-)

IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2013-08-27- 04:49:45 By KJ4AJP for the Reason clarity
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-11-19- 16:18:02 
W5LMM
Member
Joined: 2012-02-13- 18:18:04
Posts: 126
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 

Is there a writeup somewhere about setting up a basic version of asterisk on a mesh node?



[EDIT]


Never mind.. found it.


http://hsmm-mesh.org/hsmm-mesh-forums/view-postlist/forum-9-voip/topic-284-asterisk-running-natively-on-hsmm-mesh-node.html

IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2013-11-19- 16:21:13 By W5LMM for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-12-08- 09:25:04 
KE5MNV
Member
Joined: 2013-12-07- 11:22:10
Posts: 1
Location
Hello all. First post here... I'm a total newb at 2.4 GHz and the HSMM web, having yet to build my first node. I might believe that the raw definition of VOIP would include vocal melodies as well but, since kc2uvg apparently has his answer, the point is moot for now. (Even though it's a perfectly good subject up for discussion.) Local weather reports might be a good interlude as well.
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2013-12-08- 15:26:59 
KF5JIM
Future Astronaut
Joined: 2013-07-17- 12:13:36
Posts: 250
Location: Nederland

These types of questions can get many different responses and opinions from many different users. I am no lawyer, but here is my take on it:


FCC 97.113.5 states that "No amateur station shall transmit...Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section; communications intended to facilitate a criminal act; messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals or identification."

With that, what is the FCC's definition of a "phone emission?" In FCC Part 97.3(c)(5) it states "The following terms are used in this part to indicate emission types: Phone. Speech and other sound emissions having designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2 or 3 as the second symbol; E as the third symbol. Also speech emissions having B as the first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol; E as the third symbol. MCW for the purpose of performing the station identification procedure, or for providing telegraphy practice interspersed with speech, incidental tones for the purpose of selective calling or alerting or to control the level of a demodulated signal may also be considered phone.

So with that, what type of emission is 802.11g? According to Cisco's documentation, 802.11g uses OFDM (Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing), Documentation.

So what is OFDM? What's its emission type? Wikipedia (as much as I try to stay away from them) has a good article. Acording to Digi, OFDM, DSSS has an emission designation of 16M8GXW.

What does 16M8GXW mean? Take a look at this article for the FCC's emission designation definitions. And remember what was mentioned earlier? A phone emission is that which has "designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2 or 3 as the second symbol; E as the third symbol. Also speech emissions having B as the first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol; E as the third symbol."

Since 16M8GXW doesn't have an A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R, a 1, 2, or 3 nor an E as the thrid simbol (and likewise with the "Also speech emission..." part), OFDM is not a phone emission. This means that 97.113, "No amateur station shall transmit...Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section." does not apply to OFDM and therefore we can send databit across the mesh that are interpreted by the VoIP phones as electrical waveform that command the phone speaker to make the sound, or "music" we hear.

IP Logged
Last Edited On: 2013-12-08- 15:32:22 By KF5JIM for the Reason
My opinions and views expressed here are solely my own.
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2014-06-22- 19:29:34 
kf7bws
Member
Joined: 2011-10-28- 14:57:45
Posts: 13
Location: Keizer, Oregon CN84lx
  
Transferring an MP3 from one friend to another is not playing music. Internet radio or the broadcasting of music, which music on hold is equivalent to is not acceptable. Code practice is the best choice.
IP Logged
 Subject :Re:Will having music on hold break the rules?.. 2014-06-22- 20:04:06 
KF5JIM
Future Astronaut
Joined: 2013-07-17- 12:13:36
Posts: 250
Location: Nederland

Aah, but Wes, I consider code practice a-tonal music (one that lacks a tonal center). A-tonal or not, code practice is music to my ears! Under your definition, I'd best not do code practice either.

Thanks for reviving a dead thread.

IP Logged
My opinions and views expressed here are solely my own.
Page # 


Powered by ccBoard


SPONSORED AD: